I am not even sure what to make of this, but in a note relating to the Keynes-Hayek debate Edmund Phelps writes
What now do we do? With some luck, the economy will
“recover” through a return of investment activity to sustainable
levels once some capital stocks, like houses, have been worked
down. But it will not recover to a strong level of business activity
unless something happens to boost innovation. The great question
is how best to get innovators humming again through the breadth
of the land. Hayek himself said little on innovation. But at least he
had an applicable theory of how a healthy economy works.The Keynesians, sad to say, show no understanding of how
the economy works. They think they can lever employment up or
down by pushing buttons – as if the economy were hydraulic. They
show no grasp of the concepts that would be necessary to restore us
to prosperity and flourishing. In an old image that applies well to
the posturing of today’s self-styled Keynesians, “the Emperor has
no clothes.”
So obviously there is the general mincing of welfare and macroeconomic notions. Does anyone seriously doubt that the government can lever up down employment by pushing buttons? Suppose that anyone found having a job was shot on sight. Show of hand for how many think this would lower employment.
Suppose I drafted all citizens between the ages of 16 and 65, do you think this would raise employment?
But, lets leave that aside since a lot of folks get confused over the difference between welfare and economic aggregates.
What is anyone to make of the statement that a
a strong level of business activity unless something happens to boost innovation
How can that possibly be anything other than a monetary statement, which Phelps rejects as a cause for the slump. Accept for concerns over monetary policy what at all would innovation have to do with business activity?
It is clear why you could not get economic growth without innovation but the vast majority of business activity over the course of human history have been in economies that were not growing.
Indeed, the vast majority of business activity that occurs from now until the end time will almost certainly be in economies that are not growing. Sustained per capita growth is an odd thing that just started recently and will likely end in fairly short span of time.
I hate to put it this way but I cannot read this without wondering, if this is what Edmund Phelps thinks, then what do most people think?

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Tuesday ~ April 17th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Lord
He is thinking innovation will drive investment which as Keynes pointed out will increase activity, but there is many a slip between innovation and investment. His is a technology story and we are out of ideas. His emphasis is on prosperity and flourishing and doesn’t consider these existing without growth.
Tuesday ~ April 17th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
curtd59
That’s false. It’s not ‘clear’ at all. The argument is not settled.
We INTUIT that spending may in some ways create innovation. But we can’t prove it. There isn’t much evidence of it. And there is so much noise created by the boom bust cycle that it’s pretty hard to make out anything at all.
We know that spending and loose money creates demand, decreases employment AND misallocates capital. Capital follows the easiest opportunity. It exacerbates booms and busts. You just choose to write off the damage done whenever you’re questioned about it. I don’t think you understand the tragedy of the commons behavior this process creates — exploit what you can before it falls apart. It’s not like this nonsense takes place entirely in the market. It moves from the market into politics, and further polarizes the entire process.
We SUSPECT that periods of ‘contraction’ do the opposite, which is to expand innovation of all types, everywhere. It certainly looks to be the case. It makes logical sense that opportunity constraint makes people seek opportunity in ‘harder’ places.
But the jury is out. The argument is not settled. Other than perhaps the confirmation provided by the Germans, who pursue this strategy on cultural and moral grounds rather than rational grounds, and they have less coalition building to do in their party system, so it’s not necessary to express the problem in rational terms.
We can’t achieve the same thing here in the states because of ideological factions, most of which are antagonized by your hero. You “SPENDERS” don’t look at all four policy levers as a set that must be moved IN CONCERT so that misallocation of capital does not occur. The side-effect of moving all four levers in concert is that everyone across the political spectrum also buys into the solution:
a) spending (liberals and progressives)
b) credit (moderates)
c) industrial policy (classical liberals and conservatives)
d) human capital (austrians and conservatives)
Why do they ‘buy in’? Because a four-lever ‘transaction’ is an inter-temporal exchange from which everyone in every class benefits, not an inter-temporal redistribution which benefits some at the cost of others. Even if none of the participants can articulate their idea in such clear language.
This is why the progressive alliance fails. It fails because it seeks redistribution rather than exchange. This is why you and Krugman are frustrated. You because you beliefe “Sh__t happens”. Krugman because he’s a racist and an ideologue. He’s well aware of what he’s doing. He’s just the Limbaugh of the Left. Limbaugh works with the economy of norms, Krugman with the monetary economy. But they’re identical in practice.
You on the other hand simply err: “Sh__” doesn’t “happen”. It’s caused. It’s caused by distortion of the inter-temporal information system that allows us to coordinate our activities in such a way that we ensure we are following productive ends.
Politics is either voluntary exchange or involuntary theft. Exchanges are self-justifying. Thefts are unjustifiable. Period. Politics is coalition forming, or it’s just dictatorship. And however you choose to justify your preference for dictatorship, it’s dictatorship and nothing more. And the moment you justify your preference with dictatorship, you put back on the table the opposition’s right to press for dictatorship. And in this case, the other side is more capable of putting it into place and maintaining it. They have a more accurate view of human nature. They’re just less willing and interested in doing so.
So let’s all stay with seeking exchanges, OK? There are at least four specialties in political economy if we don’t count the MMT group. Together those four groups force an inter-temporal exchange that limites the distortionary effects of credit and spending by matching them with future increases in production.
Statesmen lead their states. Ideologues lead their ideology. Hacks are just hacks.
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 7:15 am
Karl Smith
There are a lot of things going on but focus on just the concept of business activity. Clear business activity occurred in Ancient Rome which saw no increases in per capita wealth and extremely slow increases in innovation.
However, people can go to work, produce goods and sell those goods on the market just like their father did and his father before him, using exactly the same tools and methods.
You don’t need steady innovation to get trade and commerce, you just need human beings organizing themselves into specialties.
Tuesday ~ April 17th, 2012 at 6:54 pm
The harm a Nobel Prize can do: The case of Edmund Phelps | Historinhas
[...] Karl Smith at Modeled Behavior and Russ Roberts at Cafe Hayek today took on remarks by Edmund Phelps made last [...]
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 10:41 am
Morgan Warstler
Innovation produces productivity, which reduces costs, which delivers new savings as if from magic.
Innovation = same (at lower price) or better stuff than what you had – this innovation is the only thing that raises up everyone’s – even poor people’s lives.
Innovation = the older stuff depreciates in value, shifting the playing field under everyone feet.
When folks on the right talk about innovation driving growth, this is what they mean: we need more savings from magic and more shifting ground under everyone feet
When they say there is too much regulation, they mean it is riskier for entrepreneurs to innovate than it should be.
The WHOLE point is the problems we have are structural, the are simply going to kick people out of the wagon, and we are going to do things liberals don’t like and things will get better.
IF we had done things liberals don’t like earlier, we would be farther along.
No one can argue that what is happening is 12M families who have no equity in their homes being t foreclosed on and the housing stock liquidated.
it is happening today.
It has always been the SOLUTION.
The question is WHY liberals didn’t run to the solution? Why did we have to wait 4 years?
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 10:58 am
Morgan Warstler
This is the stuff that matters:
http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2012/04/the-twitter-patent-hack.html
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Edmund Phelps Should Read Hawtrey and Cassel « Uneasy Money
[...] Nunes follows Karl Smith and Russ Roberts in wondering what Edmund Phelps was talking about in his remarks in the second [...]
Sunday ~ June 24th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Demand Full Employment
[...] I read a blog post on Modeled Behavior about a piece written by Edmund Phelps on Keynes vs. Hayek. One interesting quote pointed out on [...]
Monday ~ May 6th, 2013 at 12:25 am
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