David Pogue has a very nice piece about Apple, China, and Foxconn over at the NYT that I recommend reading in full. But I want to highlight one part in particular where he quotes from a letter he received from a Chinese man whose aunt got a job at a Foxconn like factory that allowed her to leave her old job of prostitution:
If Americans truly care about Asian welfare, they would know that shutting down “sweat shops” would force many of us to return to rural regions and return to truly despicable “jobs.” And I fear that forcing factories to pay higher wages would mean they hire FEWER workers, not more.
What bothers me about some of the commentary I’ve been reading on this is that many who are bothered by Foxconn are saying things that imply they don’t in fact truly care about Asian welfare, as Pogue’s correspondent put it. But I don’t think most don’t care, rather I agree with Krugman they simply haven’t thought through the implications.
Take, for example, Andrew Leonard writing at Salon about a labor union PR man who is searching for “an ethical smartphone”:
Wood embarked on a quest to see if he could find, at the very least, a smartphone that wasn’t quite so badly compromised as all the others… He wondered whether he should cut Samsung a break because the company kept more of its manufacturing in house in South Korea — where the labor laws were better enforced than in China or Vietnam.
Now South Korea has a per capita income of around $30,000, while China’s is around $8,400 and Vietnam is even lower at $3,400. So, predictably, Wood thinks it’s more ethical for a company to locate it’s operations in the nation that is somewhere between four to ten times richer than the alternatives. I struggle to see what the moral philosophy is that finds benefitting richer workers instead of poorer ones to be more ethical. He frames the issue in terms of rewarding nations that enforce labor laws better, but it will almost always be the case that richer nations enforce labor laws better.
And no, contrary to some of the arguments I’ve been seeing, a nation does not move from poor to rich by having stronger labor laws (or for that matter through more “ethical” consumption and the decision by consumers altruistically to pay more for goods). Yes, well functioning governments and institutions are an important part of the recipe for growth, but labor laws will be skated even in very rich countries when businesses save a lot of money by doing so. Thus we see that even in the U.S. many employees break labor laws by hiring illegal immigrants, but very few attempt to sneak past regulators by instituting 1800s style safety regulations. This is because 1800s safety and work rules would cost employers a lot of money as the laws are very far from what the free market would dictate. If you want workers with high marginal productivity and concomitant ability to demand high wages to do something dangerous then you have to pay them to do it.
This is why the causality works primarily like this:
- Worker productivity rises
- Wages rise
- Workers are less willing to accept unsafe conditions for marginally higher wages
- Compensating differentials increase so dangerous working conditions become more expensive for employers
- The difference between free market safety levels and those specified by labor laws narrow
- Complying with said laws is cheaper
- Compliance increases
This is not to say that labor laws can’t or don’t increase safety. They certainly can on the margin, especially as rising wages and worker safety preferences makes complying with them cheaper. But most of the observed difference in working conditions between the developed world and the developing world is due to the above mechanism, and not labor laws themselves.
If you want to make Chinese workers better off in terms of safety and working conditions, you’re missing the main point if you ignore productivity. Which, by the way, is hurt when foreign investment and capital locates in richer countries instead of poor ones. People who don’t like what they see at Foxconn would do well to remember this and stop calling companies who choose to locate operations in rich countries more “ethical”.

21 comments
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Thursday ~ February 23rd, 2012 at 9:32 pm
nazgulnarsil
putting on my Hanson hat here:
“saying things that imply they don’t in fact truly care about Asian welfare”
of course they don’t care about welfare, they care about signaling that they have the resources to care about welfare and are thus good allies. Pointing out that their signals are faulty is a one upsmanship game as old as homo sapiens.
The best we can hope for is that giving to givewell becomes a popular form of signalling and people consume efficiently the rest of the time letting the market do its job of uplift.
Thursday ~ February 23rd, 2012 at 11:07 pm
Leonardo
So Foxconn conveniently raises wages by 25% for hundreds of thousands of people for no reason? Or economic conditions just happened to shift right at that moment so that was the only way they could find labor? Cmon now.
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 1:21 am
stop sweating, how to stop excessive sweat
Hello Modeledbehavior,
This question may be a little off-topic, A Foreign Language can give you a new perspective because there are some words our language doesn’t have and some English words that we can’t express in a different language.
Regards
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 2:20 am
Dollared
Awesome. You actually act on your mission statement of “comforting the comfortable.”
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 4:15 am
FT Alphaville » Further reading
[...] Another view of [...]
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 10:48 am
anon
Karl, labor “asking for higher wages” is the historic mechanism that led to the enacting labor laws. Before those laws employers would just brutally cut off any protest.
Like China does today.
So what Apple does is that it exports worse working conditions to the developed world, by keeping almost-slaves and depressing wages in the US. This is what the naughties have brought us. Why do you think it’s a self-balancing dynamic? Most dynamics in nature are unstable.
You know that most slaves in the US were happy with slavery and that they were distinctly worse off once they were freed? Do you argue that modern slavery should go on, because the slaves are happy and well fed?
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 10:49 am
anon
Erm, that should read “Adam”
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 11:56 am
No Country For Constitutional Men
Same argument used when children worked in sweatshops in the US during the early 20th Century. After all it helped the family was the excuse. Who could argue that fact, but it was being done on the backs of children. Relativism rears it’s ugly head once again.
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
No Country For Constitutional Men
Their companies are some of the worst polluters in the world, so the citizens gets screwed not once with pay and working conditions but twice because they must live in this pollution. We, rightfully so, play hardball with US companies while soft peddling these facts about Chinese companies, as our jobs are sent to the 4 corners of the world. In truth, workers from both countries get royally screwed while the techno-crats grow richer by the hour.
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
elboku
safer labor conditions came about because of market forces? That is insane. You must not know history at all and live in some economic fantasy world. Better working conditions came about due to labor’s insistence that certain things be prohibited- and laws were passed to regulate those conditions. Do you honestly think the south would ever have given up slavery? Or that companies would give up child labor? I will let Matt Y. take a shot at that:
I really could not be more excited about Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson’s soon-to-be-released Why Nations Fail: The Origins Of Power, Prosperity, and Poverty. The authors are the best the economics profession has right now at tackling the really big issues. Even better, to promote the book they’re now blogging. The debut post is about Uzbekistan, where the school system is, among other things, a source of slave labor for the cotton industry:
The harvest lasts for two months. Rural children lucky enough to be assigned to farms close to home can walk or are bused to work. Children farther away or from urban areas have to sleep in the sheds or storehouses with the machinery and animals. There are no toilets or kitchens. Children have to bring their own food for lunch. In the spring, school is closed for compulsory hoeing, weeding, and transplanting (see here).
They leave drawing any larger lessons for the book, but I’m going to take a flier and say that this kind of provision of low-cost agricultural labor, though value-maximizing in the very short-term, is much worse for a country’s long-term growth potential than proper investment in the people of Uzbekistan and their future. On the other hand, this is a policy status quo that would seem to serve the interests of whoever owns or controls the land very well.- SLATE
Companies would use child and slave labor and pay nothing if they could get away with it without breaking the law. There is always some poor wretched fool willing to do a job and children are a dime a dozen: one can always make more of them.
And I will not even discuss how your post so nicely does away with morality in the field of economics.
Wow.
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Ken
elboku – ahem, “labor” IS a market force. The basic argument offered IS that labor condition improvements are (at base) precipitated BY LABOR.
When labor gains leverage, labor uses it. Simple. In the argument offered, the root of that advantage is because productivity rose. Alternately (not argued by post, but evident in the comments), labor sometimes gains leverage because the supply is constrained (remember that supply & demand is THE most basic market force).
As for some of your other markets, good thing we never ran agriculture on the backs of children in North America…. wait, why is it we don’t send kids to school during summers again?
Not saying “you’re wrong,” just saying that societies follow some fairly predictable paths of social evolution – and the forces driving them ARE market forces (pretty much any society other than hunter-gatherer or pure subsistence farming is so driven).
Finally, economics is an analytical science. Economists (people) can be moral, but economics cannot be moral.
Saturday ~ February 25th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
elboku
I understand economics is an analytical science but if it doesn’t understand (or attempt to understand) human behavior, it really is just ‘made-up numbers’. How did slaves improve their labor conditions? By being better slaves? How did children improve their working conditions? Neither group improved their working conditions in and of themselves; the use of law to constrain the behavior of the companies improved the working conditions.
And really, economists have to stop using the term ‘free market’. There has never been such a thing; there is no such thing, and there will never be such a thing. Business have relied on the government (be it kings/queens or other forms) to build roads and other forms of infrastructure and to have a currency, among other civilized functions. And let us not even go into tax code bias. The only reason we have any ‘market’ at all is the creation of the fiction known as money to replace the barter system. And who backs money? Government. The question is not whether government is involved in the market, rather, the question is how much.
The point is that we know what a civilized society should look like to a certain degree. We know slavery and sweatshop labor are inherently wrong. We can allow them to exist so that we can level out wages worldwide for unskilled and, some, skilled labor. Example: call center workers in American either need to live on the $300.00 a month Indian call center workers live on or they give up the job they have. Why is India cheaper? Well, for one thing, its leaders choose not to have the same kind of living conditions as America; hence, the cost of living is cheaper. For the vast majority of Indians, India is a hellhole. Sure, for the rich and the connected, India is a great place. For the rest: not so much. There is not a race to raise wages everywhere; there is a race to lower wages in more affluent countries.
And who benefits from lower wages? Hint: it ain’t the workers, honey-pie.
As Dean Baker s fond of pointing out, the moving of high paying manufacturing jobs overseas to be replaced by lower paid workers overseas was a conscious political act. As he also says, we could do the same to doctors and lawyers by breaking down the barriers to employment for foreign doctors and lawyers. As I would say: gee, wonder why that isn’t happening?
There is a reason the median wage in America is only around 27k.
Monday ~ February 27th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Ken
elboku,
Great question,
“How did slaves improve their labor conditions? By being better slaves? How did children improve their working conditions? Neither group improved their working conditions in and of themselves; the use of law to constrain the behavior of the companies improved the working conditions.”
I suggest you have cause & effect reversed.
Rarely does law drive social change. It’s the other way around. Laws are amended when enough people believe it’s time for a change (laws just herd the stragglers into line).
As an example, did changing a law actually grant equal civil rights in 1967 or did enough of the 87% of Americans (i.e. the mostly white ones) finally realize the grievous injustice (or just lost the stomach to perpetuate it), making it feasible for lawmakers to give the sentiment official status? If the law changed reality for the majority, then why didn’t somebody pass the law in, say, 1932, pretty much the worst of days if one happened to be born brown in the U.S.? Clearly, lawmakers changed the law because the body politic had shifted
Clean air & water act as another example? Then why didn’t somene pass it in 1955 as industrial pollution really got going in the U.S.? The act passed because the Cuyahoga River caught fire, air became unbreathable in many cities, and (conveniently) because technology to clean up effluents was actually available.
Similar legislative histories in western EU for social, economic and environmental requirements.
“Developing” countries will catch up, but only when they decide to do so (i.e. when their societies can sustain the will to change the law). Until then, realities are that poor people will select the best options available to them (often what you or I call a sweatshop is better than the lives they’d otherwise lead) and that some rascal will take rapacious profits when & where circumstances allow.
Remember, the U.S.today is a VERY different place than 1 or 2 generations ago. Social change is rather slow and comes about when enough people change their minds (or die off & their kids think differently).
You are right about “free” markets, of course – no such thing & never was. All markets are constrained by some conditions (socially agreed to).
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
RickR
But Foxconn has a market at both ends of production.
Foxconn sells products to Apple. If Apple comes to Foxconn and says “we want you to use a higher grade plastic for the cases on the iPhones you make for us, and use these higher quality chips. And the reliability of the iPhones need to be improved, so more testing. Foxconn replies “that will raise the cost”. Apple then says “do it anyway”. Foxconn can take it of leave it. It they refuse, or raise the price to a point that Apple thinks is unreasonable, then Apple can walk away. That’s how a market works.
But apparently if Apple raises the cost by saying “pay your workers more.”, somehow the market magically stops working? No, that is the market working also – keeping the customer sufficiently satisfied that they keep buying your product.
Apple is not the government. They cannot force Foxconn to raise wages at the point of a gun. But they can – and this is the market working – say “we are not satisfied and will stop buying your product”. And Foxconn can say “no” and stop selling their product, or “yes” and keep selling it – that’s the market.
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 7:01 pm
Pogue on Foxconn: hey, at least it’s not rice farming or prostitution! | TUMBLR TRANSLATOR
[...] the Pogue column, and reactions focused in the study of global economics. Economics consultant Adam Ozimek has a thoughtful reaction to the Pogue column here, focusing on labor laws, and what factors motivate change. And Mike Daisey has quite a rant here. [...]
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
democraciaglobal.net » Using globalisation for good
[...] ADAM OZIMEK responds tο David Pogue’s mοѕt recent post аt thе Nеw York Times οn working conditions аt Foxconn’s iPhone factories, іn whісh hе notes several things. First, Apple hаѕ hired thе Hοnеѕt Labor Association tο investigate Foxconn’s factories. Second, Foxconn hаѕ raised wages. Third, аn ABC documentary team visited Foxconn’s factories аnd found mostly a lot οf реrfесtlу natural boredom, rаthеr thаn реrіlουѕ working conditions per se. (Foxconn wаѕ aware οf thе visit іn advance, аnd obviously wουld hаνе ensured everything wаѕ scrubbed fοr thе camera аnd thаt οnlу compliant workers wеrе around.) And finally, thеrе′s tons οf evidence thаt thе Chinese workers аrе very рlеаѕеd tο hаνе Foxconn jobs. Thеу′re better-paid thаn life іn thе village, thеу′re οftеn viewed аѕ starter jobs fοr young people whο аrе рlοttіng tο gο οn tο something more substantial later οn, аnd, аѕ one letter writer notes, working аt Foxconn wаѕ a lot better fοr hіѕ aunt thаn hеr prior job аѕ a village prostitute. [...]
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
Pogue on Foxconn: hey, at least it’s not rice farming or prostitution! – - AboutLifeX - Living News AggregatorAboutLifeX – Living News Aggregator
[...] the Pogue column, and reactions focused in the study of global economics. Economics consultant Adam Ozimek has a thoughtful reaction to the Pogue column here, focusing on labor laws, and what factors motivate change. And Mike Daisey has quite a rant here. [...]
Friday ~ February 24th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
Pogue on Foxconn: hey, at least it’s not rice farming or prostitution! - Bring you health life. - Health life
[...] the Pogue column, and reactions focused in the study of global economics. Economics consultant Adam Ozimek has a thoughtful reaction to the Pogue column here, focusing on labor laws, and what factors motivate change. And Mike Daisey has quite a rant here. [...]
Saturday ~ February 25th, 2012 at 12:40 am
Pogue on Foxconn: hey, at least it’s not rice farming or prostitution! | China News Center
[...] the Pogue column, and reactions focused in the study of global economics. Economics consultant Adam Ozimek has a thoughtful reaction to the Pogue column here, focusing on labor laws, and what factors motivate change. And Mike Daisey has quite a rant here. [...]
Saturday ~ February 25th, 2012 at 11:05 pm
Pogue on Foxconn: hey, at least it’s not rice farming or prostitution! | Distant Mongolia
[...] the Pogue column, and reactions focused in the study of global economics. Economics consultant Adam Ozimek has a thoughtful reaction to the Pogue column here, focusing on labor laws, and what factors motivate change. And Mike Daisey has quite a rant here. [...]
Tuesday ~ March 6th, 2012 at 3:14 am
Using globalisation for good - I, voter
[...] globalisation for good ADAM OZIMEK responds to David Pogue’s most recent post at the New York Times on working conditions at [...]