I wanted to make some more points about GDP. They are all sort of related but I am not sure that I will get a chance to tie them in a nice bow.
GDP by Any Other Name
Bryan Caplan notes
a big part of the philosophy of GDP is to eschew philosophical arguments about what’s "really productive."
On reflection, though, the standard approach is anything but agnostic. Official stats tacitly make an extreme assumption: waste does not exist. Astrology counts, even though astrologers can’t predict the future. Every penny of health care counts – regardless of its efficacy. The whole defense budget counts – even if it’s provoking war rather than deterring it. Indeed, if two countries’ militaries mutually annihilate, both countries count the cost as a benefit.
Question: Suppose you had the chance to redefine the GDP formula – to create the real measure of real GDP.
The short answer is that the official measures have it more or less right.
Whether the product is wasteful or wasted is of no concern. What GDP attempts to tell us is the extent to which the US economy is able to transform the basic resources of land, labor and capital into output of someone’s design.
I think the confusion comes when we try to measure output in a single unit – in this case a sort of dollar-value metric.
However, imagine we were in a country that produced only Apples. If we produced 100 Apples last year and 200 Apples this year then GDP has doubled. It does not matter whether folks want to eat the Apples, use them as projectiles to hurl at neighbors or simply grew them by mistake and are now letting them rot.
These might be question you are interested in, but they are not questions that GDP answers.
If that doesn’t seem deep enough to be satisfying consider this. Most people consider TVs to be an important part of GDP. However, should they be slashed because I believe that TV rots your brain?
If an astrologer gave me advice that saved my marriage should we up the dollar per hour value of that service to be equal to a trained therapist?
If I love war and live for the sight of destruction should military budgets count? If our military sweeps across the globe and rids the world of the oppression of women should that count for more?
If our military unearths a trillion dollars in rare earth metals that lie under what otherwise would have been grazing ground for goats, how does that count?
GDP is simply not a measure of social welfare. That’s not what it is. That it is correlated with social welfare is an important empirical observation, but GDP is not defined that way and so the process of estimating it should not attempt to take that into account.
Austerity and Beauty
There has been a lot of debate over whether government spending can boost the economy. Much of it has been confused over the dynamics, a topic I hope to return to. However, there is just as much confusion over the aesthetics.
For example Cardiff Garcia presents this chart

Which shows Goldman Sach’s best guess of the effects of fiscal policy on growth. We can argue over whether these projections are correct but what people really want to argue over whether we should find this chart beautiful.
If government spending is distasteful to you – for whatever reasons deeply ethical or mindlessly trivial – then watching government be extracted from the economy is beautiful thing even if nothing replaces it.
If the US economy is less because there are fewer prisons then Bob Murphy’s point should not be that austerity can grow the economy, but that austerity is beautiful.
An economy which shrinks because it produces less pain is better even if it produces no more of anything else.
Now, you may say: yes, but what about the mulitplier? Surely that matters. Perhaps, I think too much is read into the concept of multiplier but even assuming a straight forward reading, the simple fact is that good things often come at a price. If the price of fewer prisons is that former prison guards by fewer cars and houses and shoes, then perhaps this is worth paying?
Now these are not all prison guards but teachers, and tax cuts and other things. However, the question people want to ask is, is reducing these things a good idea? Or, even more basically, do I desire a world in which there are fewer of these things?
This is not a question that GDP or multipliers can answer for you.
The Japanese Question
There are many things that make Japan an fascinating if tragic case study. However, a major issue that I only see Dean Baker bring up and that is the service flow from capital.
Dean says
But there is an area in which Fingleton may actually understate his case. I remember refereeing a journal article at the end of the 90s about Japan’s price index for passenger trains. (Wait, this is not that boring.)
The article purported to show that the official Japanese index overstated inflation because it missed quality improvements. The main quality improvement was that the trains were less crowded.
This issue is deeply fundamental and can help us understand GDP.
Suppose that a massive flu sweep through the United States and reduced the population by half within a week and then burned itself out and was gone.
There would be “adjustment costs” to be sure, but what would we expect to be the major effect on US GDP say two or three years out.
Well total GDP would decline, but properly measured per capita GDP would almost certainly rise.
There are a couple of ways to see this but I think the easiest is this. The vacancy rate in the Northeast corridor would skyrocket. Rents would collapse. This in turn would lead to a massive migration of Americans into the corridor – essentially taking the place of those who died.
This would mean the fraction of America living in the corridor would rise from 17% to likely as high as 30%. Since, the GDP per capita of the Northeast Corridor is 20% higher than the rest of the nation, that would tend to drag up the entire nations GDP per capita.
This phenomenon would be repeated around the country with people taking advantage of lower rents to move to places they previously could not afford and enjoying the agglomeration benefits.
The thing is, however, this does not mean that the standard of living will tend to rise for all groups. It will rise for people whose skills, talents and preferences fit well with urbanization.
The standard of living for uneducated men for example may very well fall, as the relative demand for construction, warehousing, vehicle manufacturing falls. These fall not only in absolute but in relative terms because the population is now more concentrated.
All of this is to say that the relationship between GDP, national prosperity, and the living standards of citizens is a complicated affair. There are many ways that a rising tide could sink some boats without calling on the bugaboos of big government or big business.
Indeed, I don’t have time to go into it here but I think that part of the issue with Japan and America is that people conflate the fact that rising Industrial Production has historically produced rapid gains for everyone with the idea that rising GDP will do this.
For example, if we compare the growth of Industrial Production per Capita in the US to Real GDP per Capita in the US we get a pattern familiar to Tyler Cowen and Lane Kenworthy.

There is nothing in here about Wall Street or family size or unions per se. Nor does it say anything about employment in various sectors.
It simply contrasts the part of the economy that is, as like to say, coal-fired, with the part of the economy that is not.
Japan shows some similar patterns but I have to let this go for tonight.

7 comments
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Saturday ~ January 28th, 2012 at 5:06 am
The Peak Oil Poet
I’d leave the ground to the grazing goats.
Your play with the idea of a nasty bug wiping out much of the population?
Maybe that’s what we are now facing – a BBC show i heard today certainly sounded like the threat was, if not eminent, then highly possible.
Post is great though. Very enlightening.
pop
Saturday ~ January 28th, 2012 at 11:17 am
Becky Hargrove
Excellent post Karl, thank you. I want to look at something in all this that I’ll just call ‘wealth overlays’. Because GDP measures money, and money is the measure of everything else, multiple benefits are not part of what is measurable, however GDP increases when everything is separated rather than overlaid. The world we live in today was optimized (that word again) by isolating as many economic elements as possible, in part for GDP growth. Few today in the U.S. today live above their retail store, and when living/working places are separated so we need a car, that too increases GDP. In some cases economic sustainability was hidden in the overlays, it was just hard to define.
The Japan example lets us think about the wealth overlay in the unseen sense. Say we had a health measurement that was broken down into categories such as physical health benefit, mental health benefit and so on. What I thought of in the Japan discussion was similar, i.e. a law that stopped the big box retail stores. Did that mean that Japanese citizens did not need so many cars and they could more easily walk to the little stores they already had? Voila, both a mental health benefit and a physical health benefit, just like the less crowded trains. Although the train example had some added GDP benefit, because more trains had been built than supposedly were needed.
Saturday ~ January 28th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Andy Harless
If real GDP doesn’t measure welfare (and I agree it doesn’t), then why bother to measure it at all? We can measure labor input, and we can measure nominal output. What use is there in trying to partition the ratio into productivity and the price level? Adding apples and oranges seems like rather a hopeless task. It might be worth the attempt if it were trying to measure something important such as welfare, but apparently it’s not.
Saturday ~ January 28th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Lord
Welfare enters into the selection of what we produce. The more this selection truly reflects our individual and social desires, the closer to welfare it is. Waste exists and we don’t always know what will truly make us happy, nor do we know what we don’t know, but we are always attempting to optimize and find out, which is the best we can do.
Saturday ~ January 28th, 2012 at 7:47 pm
nemi
Your example with apples make sense – but what about ”quality improvements”.
Say that we all the sudden were able to produce “better” apples, e.g. some kind of apple that you would trade 1.5 old apples for. In what way do we produce more if we produce 100 new apples at the opportunity cost of 100 old apples? We do produce a new thing, so in one sense our productivity has increased (or changed?), but it does seem like the claim that our BNP has increased is at least a bit normative.
The only reason to say that GDP is higher when we invented the new apples is that we value those apples to a higher degree than the old apples (or the new gadget compared to old gadget)..
At this point, a GDP measure does not even make sense if you believe that utility is ordinal and that you can´t compare utility between different individuals (and thus not aggregate them).
PS: Is there any estimations about how much growth over, say, the last 50 years that is due to us being able to produce more apples rather than better apples?
Saturday ~ January 28th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
nemi
PS:
Bill Woolsey (who, I think, usually makes very good comments) is commenting on Caplans post with:
“””””GDP doesn’t measure welfare. It measures output.
To think about defense, think about opportunity cost. What is the value of the consumer goods that were sacrificed to produce the national defense.”””
I guess that you, Karl, would agree with that.
However – to me it reads:
GDP does not measure value. It measures output.
To think about defense, think about value.
What is it that I am missing?
Sunday ~ January 29th, 2012 at 8:43 am
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