Jim Manzi replies to me on Apple cash including a post I previously missed. I am going to reply to Jim’s points not necessarily in order.
He writes
I have no idea whether Apple stock should be a buy, sell, or hold, but if Smith is right that the current shareholder base of Apple massively misunderstands the true capital requirements of the business, then he has a huge moneymaking opportunity. If he really believes in his investment thesis, he should borrow a lot of money and short Apple’s stock.
So, I am not actually making any statement about whether Apple’s stock price is “too high” or “too low.” I have a general thesis about the corporate commons but here I was actually responding to the assertion by many folks that Apple’s stock price is surprisingly low and has relatively speaking not kept up with the company’s growth.
My original case is that Apple has increasingly signaled that it intends to burn lots of shareholder value and one has to consider that when valuing the stock. Or, to put it another way one has to consider that the stream of discounted future profits includes a considerable number of negative values and Apple has signaled that it is not taking steps to minimize the number of negative values.
Since, then I posited the reactor model
His most recent post on this subject develops an analogy between the workforce of a tech company and the particles in a sub-critical fission reactor. This is meant to be literally (as far as I can tell) a sketch of a mathematical model for why Apple requires a huge amount of cash on hand to retain its employees. At best, it is pure speculation. And based on any practical experience in a tech company, it’s also extremely implausible that Apple would start to shed important engineers, or be at a disadvantage in recruiting, if it had built up, say, $40 billion on the balance sheet instead of $80 billion.
Its totally true that my model sketch is pure unadultered speculation. However, I think some folks are missing how this would work in practice.
Its not that if Apple had say $10 Billion in cash that some engineers would wake up tomorrow and say, “I don’t know guys I really think I would do better some place else”
Its that 18 months from now, when previously unknown 15 year-old engineer Jenna Markozy invents Gablet, a device that controls your entire professional and personal life by you making simple and highly intuitive clicking sounds that Apple could be in trouble.
If it has only $10 Billion then it will watch as all the top engineering grads head to Gablet and slowly its best engineers bleed over there as well.
If it has $70 billion then it either offers Jenna $30 billion for Gablet or it sets aside $60 Billion to build a Gablet destroyer. In either case it gets keep offering engineers the prospect of working on the Next Big Thing.
Yet, unless Apple got a deal on Gablet or you appeal to “synergies” then its shareholders do not benefit from the purchase of Gablet. Apple simply transferred the discounted present value of Gablet’s profits to Jenna and in return received ownership of the company. At face value this is a wash as far as shareholders are concerned.
Though there remains the strong possibility that the growing Gablet division comes to carry the infrastructure for the rest of Apple, which is equivalent to Apple slowly burning itself down.
Shareholders on would have been better off to simply have Apple dissolve itself and take the cash and invest it Gablet. Or, equivalently for Apple to buy Gablet and then dissolve the remaining parts of Apple. However, how likely do we think either of these scenarios are?
Now suppose that Apple spends its hoard building a Gablet destroyer. This opens the possibility for pure burning of the corporate commons. You might say well no this is just competition and that’s good. Ok.
But, do you imagine a conversation at Apple headquarters that goes like this. We have a decent chance of developing a Gablet beating product. However, if you look at the resources involved the net return is doesn’t make risk-adjusted sense. We should simply continue to produce Iphones and Ipads for the next year or so until Gablet completely drives our sales to zero, then dissolve the company and payout to shareholders?
This conversation seems absurd. Yet, there must exist some set of numbers that makes this the optimal choice. If no one ever chooses it then that is prima fascia evidence that they are not optimizing.
So, that’s how the model would workout in real life.
Jim also says
I’ve started and run a pretty successful enterprise software company, and I generally held a lot of cash on the balance sheet. From the perspective of shareholders, there can be many good reasons for this. First, do you know when cash-on-hand is most important? When nobody else has any. You can buy up the best talent, patents, and assets when they are cheap; you can make big technology investments when they are cheaper; you can make big marketing pushes for the resulting new products when competition for customer mindshare is lower, and so on. When times are good (or at least not catastrophic) it seems like you could always get your hands on cash when you needed it, but that’s least true when you most want it. Cash is the option to act decisively at the moment when this can create large advantages for the company
Now there could be reasons why this could make sense and I have tossed them around before. If this conversation keeps going I will bring them up. However, I want to show why at face value this doesn’t make sense.
In Jim’s scenario he has a lot of cash on his balance sheet and that allows him to make strategic purchases. But, by construction you know who doesn’t have that cash – Jim’s shareholders.
If Jim had paid out the cash to his shareholders then they would have it. And, if Jim could convince them that he really did have all of these great opportunities they could give it back to him. The fact that no one wants to give Jim cash should be taken as evidence that giving Jim cash is not a good idea.
You could say “well maybe there is just not enough cash available period.” This is a monetary policy question and is important but so involved that we should take it up in another post if people are interested.
However, here is the key thing: Having cash for opportunities like this is always a good idea for Jim and for the prospering of his company. But, both the market and the economy are indifferent to this. Jim is simply a vehicle through which resources are mutated into more desirable forms. Whether he or his company prospers is neither here nor there for the economy or for a properly diversified investor.
All that matters is the total return on capital and that’s the question we are trying to get at. There are decisions which undoubtedly help an individual company prosper but undoubtedly drive down the economy wide return on capital.
Apple is apparently holding the cash outside the U.S., so another possibility is that they’re playing for time before repatriating it because they think corporate tax rates might come down. They might be playing any one of a million tax angles.
Yeah, this is just akin to saying that I am reading their signals wrong which of course could be true.
Another possibility: A massive cash pile can discourage potential competitors from entering important markets, because they know you can retaliate by either crushing their foray into your territory or by going after their cash cows. The U.S. will hopefully never launch its nuclear weapons, but we use them every day.
Again, its clear why this is good for Apple. Its not immediately clear why its good for a diversified shareholder who also own stocks in the companies that Apple is deterring. Though, you could make the argument that this helps tacit collusion among large firms are therefore generates monopoly profits for everyone. That is an interesting angle, though many of my IO friends tell me that tacit collusion never works out in practice.
First, big tech companies often don’t pay dividends for a long time, until they do. Sometimes, these dividends are massive and continuing. Second, if there are continuing growth prospects for Apple that require cash (sometimes in ways that aren’t obvious, as per the first part of this post), then it makes sense for me as a shareholder to not want dividends for some time. The present value of the anticipated dividend stream is higher by getting more money later.
The links point to MSFT numbers. I want to do an add up – maybe a reader can do it for me – on what the future dividend and buyback stream would have to be to justify MSFT’s share price at various times discounting by the AAA corporate bond yield.
It may very well end up being that MSFT buyers at any point will have walked away to the good. We shall see.
What’s not clear, however, is that MSFT shareholders are better off having not gotten the money sooner. Mixing MSFT assets with cash reduces the options for me as a shareholder. I could want a bigger stake in MSFT real assets, in which case I would buy more stock with my dividend. I could want the cash somewhere else.
However, forcing a group assets – Microsoft real and Microsoft owned T-bills – to be bought and sold in a particular ratio makes it harder to achieve the portfolio balance I want. It may be the case that with a significantly large portfolio this constraint is non-binding but I would have to think about it.
What seems clear though is that the shareholder is unlikely to gain by imposing this constraint.
I don’t believe in anything approaching purely efficient markets. But any time a journalist or academic claims that some company could create enormous value by taking some simple action, the obvious question to them is, “Why aren’t you a billionaire?”
Key in my claims is that under none of these hypotheses is it in the interest of the Management to take these actions. Whether its in the interest of shareholders to take some action different than what they are taking I am not taking a stand on.
What is true – and a puzzle – is that under some variants of my claims it would be in the interest of private equity to take over the firm. The private equity problem is difficult as well though. Because, its clear how given these principle-agent problems one can create discounted present value using private equity.
Its not perfectly clear how one extracts that value.
Determining the ideal control strategy for economic production is extremely difficult.

12 comments
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Tuesday ~ January 10th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
anon
Karl: you are missing that cash buys time.
Latency of action is paramount. This is why cash matters to corporate finance and to hedge fund finances.
If you have cash you don’t have to prepare for days with presentations and the whole kit to convince big investors to fund your next great idea. You don’t even have to tell anyone outside your trusted circle. There’s no leakage of info along the Wall Street grapevine.
Apple is
Tuesday ~ January 10th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
anon
continued: Apple is very much about freedom of action, intuition ahead of solid proof and absolute secrecy, so that you don’t publish your failures (as they might still be great ideas, just not feasible yet).
Cash also matters when there’s panic and uncertainty – when you can do the best thing possible: to buy low. No other form of asset has that kind of low latency of action.
Tuesday ~ January 10th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
Leigh Caldwell
Very interesting question. I haven’t analysed the Microsoft cashflows but often wondered in the old days if their no-dividend policy could be optimal for shareholders.
A couple more hypotheses:
– it could well be better for Apple to buy Gablet than for the shareholders to do it themselves, either because of synergies or more likely to reduce competition between the two companies. In this sense, letting Apple keep its cash is a way for shareholders to credibly commit not to compete with each other/themselves.
– there could be big transaction costs for Apple in giving the money to shareholders and getting it back again. These might be tax related, investment banking related or just arise from the need for the management to sacrifice a degree of trust in giving money out then changing its mind.
However I think a major reason is simply the principal-agent problem that you refer to. Letting management keep the cash is part of the price that shareholders pay to keep them on board – or the management just have much more power than the shareholders to determine the allocation of resources (quite likely).
Tuesday ~ January 10th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Leigh Caldwell
Plus, as @ryanavent suggests, it could be about liquidity – not just short term liquidity but the possibility that credit-constrained shareholders will allocate the money elsewhere if Apple gives it to them, and if the management come and ask for it back it might not be there any more.
Not sure if that’s plausible given Apple’s current creditworthiness and market interest rates, but you never know how things might change.
Tuesday ~ January 10th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Recall
“Or, equivalently for Apple to buy Gablet and then dissolve the remaining parts of Apple.”
Isn’t that pretty much what they did with Fingerworks and Siri?
Wednesday ~ January 11th, 2012 at 12:38 am
Alan
Another excellent article, however you were very weak on one part, when Jim asserted: “A massive cash pile can discourage potential competitors from entering important markets …”, your reply was that “Its not immediately clear why its good for a diversified shareholder …”.
If you are granting that a stockpile of cash can protect a company from competition (IDK if I would grant that), then it is unquestionably good for the shareholders of Apple stock since it enhances their market dominance, and thus their rent. Going down the diversified route is shifting the argument from what is best for Apple to what is best for the economy in general.
Wednesday ~ January 11th, 2012 at 6:02 am
wiretap
If the shareholders are diversified they get the profits and the cash, if apple keeps the cash the shareholders just get the profit. I think that’s how the argument goes.
Wednesday ~ January 11th, 2012 at 10:12 am
Leigh Caldwell (@leighblue)
But where did the cash come from? …Profits!
Apple has kept its last ten years of profits in its bank account instead of giving them out to shareholders. Now maybe it’s about to change its policy and distribute _next_ year’s profits as a dividend. Or maybe not. But even if it does, the shareholders might well ask why it still isn’t giving them back the profits from the previous decade.
Thursday ~ January 12th, 2012 at 6:04 am
Matt (@MeCampbell30)
You’re forgetting that Apple is (legally speaking) not its managers but rather its shareholders. If apple’s managers gain at the expense of the larger economy, its Apples equity investors that suffer since they are (presumably) diversified.
Consider this example: In scenario A, Apple uses it’s 50 units of reserve wealth to force Widget Co. out of business. Widget co would have produced 20 units of wealth form new consumers who had previously not been in the tech market. Apple would have lost 10 units of wealth.
In scenario B, Apples distributes its 50 units of wealth to its investors. The investors can then choose to reinvest that 50 units back into the corporation or support the Widget Co. start-up. Apples managers would then have the burden of showing their investors why that money should be reinvested. A sane shareholder would reallocate the funds in such a manner as to maximize profit. In this case, investing in both Widget Co. and Apple for a net gain of 60 units of wealth.
Karl’s point is that in some instances, these kinds of numbers MUST be the case. And given Apples proclivity to start patent fights and push others out of the market (while not paying dividends) it is probably true of apple.
Wednesday ~ January 11th, 2012 at 2:18 am
Recall
“The links point to MSFT numbers. I want to do an add up – maybe a reader can do it for me – on what the future dividend and buyback stream would have to be to justify MSFT’s share price at various times discounting by the AAA corporate bond yield.
It may very well end up being that MSFT buyers at any point will have walked away to the good. We shall see.”
Isn’t this conceding the argument? If that future revenue stream has any value at all, then owning AAPL stock is justified, and all that would be up in the air is the price.
Friday ~ January 27th, 2012 at 3:14 am
jansm86
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Monday ~ March 26th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Biz Opp
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