To touch on a few things
Carbon Taxes
Its not inconsistent to simultaneously believe that the US should have a carbon tax and that it should aggressively pursue the development of fossil fuel resources.
The point of the carbon tax is to make sure that folks account for the cost of climate change when choosing to consume fossil fuels. The point of aggressively pursuing the development of fossil fuels is to lower their real cost.
Lower real costs are better than higher real costs.
So, the blackboard ideal is to include the cost of carbon in the price of fossil fuels and then support market conditions which lower the cost of fossil fuel extraction as much as possible.
The question is what to do in the absence of a carbon tax. One might suggest that, well in that case we should impede development. That, we should stand in the way of pursuing the tar sands or fracking.
If you believe – as Brad Johnson suggests – that the social cost of carbon are so high that if properly priced people few people would consume it then this makes sense. In this case anything less than the choke price is socially inefficient and so choking off production is always a good idea.
However, if you think that properly priced carbon is likely to have little impact on its use then even in the absence of a carbon tax you don’t want to stand in the way of fossil fuel development. Indeed, you still want to streamline the costs, just as you would if there was a carbon tax.
How Big Are the Damages
Key in this question then is what would have been the right price for carbon. This in turn is intimately related to the damages from climate change.
Now it is important to note that climate change being really really awful does not necessarily mean that the social cost of carbon is high. The social cost of carbon depends on how much worse climate change gets from using more carbon.
For example, if you reached the point where almost all of the bad stuff was baked into the cake, then the social cost of carbon would collapse. Bad things would still happen, but additional bad things would not happen.
In any case I think at this point think the consensus is that we are still on the upward slope where ever more carbon means ever more bad stuff. So, the question is – how bad is bad?
This is where strategic adaptation is a big deal. If you look at the damage function attached to most of the old estimates at least, they essentially measure how much harder it would be to continue our civilization the way it is under climate change.
However, one wouldn’t want to continue our civilization the way it is under climate change. Indeed – and this is the key point that I think is missing – one wouldn’t want to continue our civilization as is anyway.
For example, one of the major costs involved in climate change, is mass migration. Sometimes this is framed in terms of climate refugees. This seems like a big problem. But is it?
If you think think that restrictions on urbanization are a major problem one of the things you are saying is that there is not enough mass migration within the United States. If you think that limits on immigration are a major problem one the things you are saying is that there is not enough mass migration between countries.
Another major issue is Agriculture. But, look at the report from the International Food Policy Research Institute. This shows yield changes under various climate scenarios
For rain fed crops in the developed world you see increases in yields under almost all scenarios and under all scenarios incorporating increased carbon fertilization.
This result is sensible. Much of the developed world is relatively cold and dry. Climate change will tend to make hot and wet. As the authors note when they do their modeling they include no economically driven changes to crop production. They grow crops as they are grown today under simulation of different conditions.
However, of course this is highly unlikely to happen. Increases in yield in the developed world are likely to cause much more intensive farming in the developed would and in part because of technology and capital markets and in part because of the sheer land mass of the developed world, we might expect this to increase total world yields.
It should be noted that right now just about every developed country pays farmers not to farm on currently productive land so as not to let the price of crops fall too low.
A key step in the fight against world hunger is to get first world farmers to stop throwing away production and to make third world inhabitants rich enough to buy that production. The later I argue is preferably done by moving them to the first world.
As always we can and should continue to share information and ideas on this but one of the things that makes the costs of adaptation look higher than they are, is that folks are counting as costs things that are fundamentally good ideas regardless.

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Sunday ~ December 4th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Patrick
Seems to ignore the sort of conditions actual displaced groups/refugees face, which are nearly universally horrible. In economic terms there are costs involved in the uprooting and moving of lots of people at once that you aren’t taking into account.
Monday ~ December 5th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
Rick Russell
But this isn’t a “Trail of Tears” scenario. We’re talking climate and economic adjustments that will require many decades. Northern Europeans were effectively “displaced” to the new world in search of greater economic opportunity, there is no a priori reason to think that future changes will be more difficult in our connected and highly mobile world.
Sunday ~ December 4th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Matt
There are costs due to a) uncertainty and b) capital loss due to climate change. I have no idea what those costs are, but they should be considerable.
Consider not just the new cities, infrastructure, and water systems that must be built, but the old ones that become useless because people move away.
Consider also that we can only plan using models based on previous data. The less relevant the previous data, the more we must either build in redundancies based on uncertainty (which is inefficient) or accept occasional catastrophes as the price of business (which leads to human suffering).
Humans are not good at accepting generational change. Consider also how long some US cities have hung on past their prime: Detroit, the Erie Canal cities, the Rust Belt region. These areas will slowly find their new equilibrium, but in the meantime there is tremendous cost associated with supporting and attempting to salvage their crumbling infrastructure.
Migration hurts, even when it’s necessary. Given your emphasis on alleviating human suffering, I’m surprised that you seem to minimize these costs.
Sunday ~ December 4th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
Tenney Naumer
Hi,
Please note that increased CO2 under today’s conditions will often give higher yields, all else being equal.
But these increases do not hold at all under higher temperatures.
Higher temperatures, among other things, increase the amount of ground-level ozone, which is highly toxic to plants.
Other food crops have threshold temperatures beyond which yields begin to decline until they cease growing. Such temperatures already exist in many locations in Africa.
I note from the table that wheat doesn’t like CO2 at all! Goodbye bread and pasta!
Monday ~ December 5th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
IVV
But the world will be increasingly gluten-free!
Bread and pasta are horrible things for health anyway. They should be abolished.
Sunday ~ December 4th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Tenney Naumer
Also, there is an inherent error in this statement:
“The point of aggressively pursuing the development of fossil fuels is to lower their real cost.”
Nearly all of the easy-to-extract fossil fuels are gone. I like the term “extreme fossil fuels” that I saw very recently.
Just look at the BP Deepwater Horizon disaster. To this day, that stuff is making people deadly sick all around the Gulf. I’ve been eating shrimp, lately, and I have to wonder if it contains Corexit.
Then there is natural gas from fracking. More and more sick people are turning up.
Then we have the tar sands — that destroyed land can never be put back.
I’ve originally from southern Illinois, a land of both strip surface mining and underground mining. It is pretty much a wasteland now — the productivity of the farmland is gone.
So, my question is: “How do we lower the REAL cost, when it is going up all the time?”
Sunday ~ December 4th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Recall
“Now it is important to note that climate change being really really awful does not necessarily mean that the social cost of carbon is high. The social cost of carbon depends on how much worse climate change gets from using more carbon.”
What if it isn’t survivable? There’s no particular guarantee that this world we’re creating with fossil fuel use is even remotely habitable.
Sunday ~ December 4th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
TallDave
One caould take that to the point of extrapolating this trend to ask what % of the human race will survive the next scheduled Ice Age, which is just about due. Any plausible effect from warming is such a picayune concern by comparison, we’re probably better off pumping ghg for all we’re worth..
Monday ~ December 5th, 2011 at 12:39 am
Tenney Naumer
As you well know, any upcoming ice age was not due for a good 10,000-20,000 years from now.
But, as we have put so much CO2 into the atmosphere, there is unlikely to be one for the next 100,000 years.
Sunday ~ December 4th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
TallDave
Patrick — that’s usually because they have to leave their homes very suddenly and unexpectedly, not very gradaully due to millimeters-per-year sea level rise, which so far shows no acceleration trend anyways.
Monday ~ December 5th, 2011 at 12:44 am
Tenney Naumer
In fact, the trend in sea level rise has accelerated. For most of the 20th century it was on the order of about 1.7 mm per year. A bit more than 10 years ago, it suddenly jumped to nearly 3.3 mm per year. Recent studies indicate that now melting of Greenland’s ice sheet added over 1 mm in 2010 alone.
Last year there was a dip in sea level rise due to so much rain falling over land. This was due to the fact that since the atmosphere has warmed, it now holds an additional 4% water vapor (the global average).
Over land, the percentage is higher — 7 %. This can lead to extreme precipitation events (do I really need to list all of them — some 12 million people were displaced in Pakistan last year) that are 200% above old records.
Monday ~ December 5th, 2011 at 9:02 am
Browsing Catharsis – 12.05.11 « Increasing Marginal Utility
[...] Completely mainstream economics can still eviscerate environmentalism. [...]
Monday ~ December 5th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Vince
Market conditions already support drilling/extraction for pretty marginal supplies at high real costs, and limited expectations for additional major finds.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8646?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theoildrum+%28The+Oil+Drum%29
outlines a response to the notion that US production under a ‘drill everywhere’ scenario would cause a significant price drop.