A few posts back I made the point that mocking your intellectual opponents is a bad idea because only raises the cost of them changing their mind. if you mock them, your opponent has to admit that he or she is a fool.
Its much better to downplay differences and disagreements as honest mistakes that anyone could have made. This way if people want to switch their views its far less painful for them.
However, this post from Kevin Drum is enlightening.
Are there some crackpots at the Occupy Wall Street protests who will be gleefully quoted by Fox News? Sure. Are some of the organizers anarchists or socialists or whatnot? Sure. Is it sometimes hard to discern a real set of grievances from the protesters? Sure.
But so what. Ignore it. Dismiss it. Explain it away. Do whatever strikes your fancy. But don’t let any of this scare you off. We can put up with a bit of mockery if we keep the chart above firmly in front of our faces.
Kevin, is trying to pump his supporters up to withstand mockery. I assume he knows what he is doing, which tells me that progressives respond to mockery far different than does the rest of the population. Here I am including, traditional conservatives, libertarians, moderates and people who are generally apathetic about politics.
These other folks – who constitute the bulk of the population – get naturally defensive when you mock them. They do not feel scared off in the slightest. Indeed, they might have otherwise been charming and friendly but your mockery will turn them into blood enemies.
Now, as is my wont, I am going to attribute this to some systemic difference in the brain structure of progressives, that probably has to do with why they are progressives.
For example, the exact same brain structure might make one more acutely sensitive to the grievances of minorities and the local poor as well as the admonishment of climate scientists.
However, the larger point is to recognize that most people are definitely not built this way – whatever “this way” is – and mocking them is not going to get them to shy away. Its going to get them to dig in deeper.
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Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
jpersonna
I also look to brain structure, but think it shapes our life arc a bit, rather than any static viewpoint. In my family we start conservative and mellow toward liberalism. That we are conservative as we elbow our way into the world is probably not coincidence.
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
jpersonna
BTW, I think Drum is attempting inoculation.
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
White Rabbit
Karl: there is a marked difference between opponents that disagree on a good faith basis and opponents who have stopped engaging in a rational discussion, either in bad faith or out of emotional self-delusion.
The most efficient discussion tactics are just as different as well.
If you think that most hard money economists are arguing in good faith I don’t think you’ve engaged their argument hard enough
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Patrick
Mockery isn’t about the opponent In front of you, it’s about the person on the margins who has not yet come to a position.
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 1:55 pm
Bob Murphy
Karl, your post is odd, since Drum at least is just telling liberals to do what conservative already ARE doing:
If you go to any tea party event, you’ll hear some crackpot stuff and see some people dressed up in crackpot costumes (tricorner hats etc.). By “crackpot,” I mean stuff so outré that even movement conservatives know it’s crazy and want nothing to do with it. Of course, it gets reported in the media occasionally, and when it does, snarky liberals have a field day with it.
But does this scare off anyone on the right? It does not. They ignore it, or dismiss it, or try to explain it away, and then continue praising the overall movement. The fact that liberals have found some hook to deliver a blast of well-timed mockery just doesn’t faze them. They know whose side they’re on.
So Krugman is right: liberals need to take the same attitude.
So it’s weird that you are taking Drum’s post as proof that progressives have more ethical brains than conservatives (or whatever you are implying here).
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Bob Murphy
(BTW to be clear for Karl’s regular readers: I don’t split the world up into “liberal” and “conservative.” I think those are labels that talk radio hosts use, which exaggerate minute differences on the bipartisan Big Brother DC platform. But those are the terms Drum used.)
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Michael Bishop
You’re channeling Sun Tzu… leave a line of retreat is also advice one can apply to oneself: http://lesswrong.com/lw/o4/leave_a_line_of_retreat/
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Donald A. Coffin
My own take is that Kevin is telling progressives *not* to dig in their heels, *not* to get defensive–in short, *not* to behave in the way you (correctly) think most people respond to mockery.
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Lord
I don’t think liberals can be mocked by “conservatives” because “conservatives” are such a mockery themselves. Mockery in general, requires intelligence and humor and the ability to step outside of ones position, and openness to see the ridiculousness. Have you ever heard of a “conservative” comedian? There is no “conservative” counterpart to Stewart and Colbert. “Conservatives” are about earnestness and seriousness, about supplying arguments however ridiculous to explain inconvenient facts and justify their position, and about labeling and ignoring those they can’t.
Monday ~ October 10th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Kenton A. Hoover
It doesn’t seem odd at all. All missionaries feel that enough of the others will eventually cleave to the truth at offer. Otherwise they would not be willing to be martyrs, despised, or live as outsiders for years. Their G-d will reward them in the end.
Tuesday ~ October 11th, 2011 at 9:06 am
Edwin Perello
It seems those who get riled up when mocked are simply true believers. In contrast, those who don’t respond that way are general skeptics. As Karl suggested, it’s definitely psychological.
I say true believers because people who respond up to mockery by standing their ground more adamantly act in the same way as strongly religious people. Make a mockery of someone’s faith and they will cling to it even harder; contradict a Tea Partier with facts that refute their preconceived notions and they will denounce, refuse to listen, and simply yell over you.
Part of the reason is because, as has been evidenced, the typical Tea Party protester was moderately educated. They may have been wrong on certain issues and repeated many serious inaccuracies, but that education gave them a kind of sophomoric confidence. These are the people who passed ECON 101 and perhaps a few more ECON classes but fed the teachers what they wanted to hear to pass the class and refused to be “indoctrinated” and “brainwashed”. This gave them the language and ammunition, but the textbooks were burning in one hand and the guns were pointed at Athena, the goddess of wisdom.
This isn’t a liberal vs right thing, though. I know there are many of those people protesting the collusion between Wall Street and corporations with government right now who would respond in the same manner. These are true believers as well – the type who will have an ill response to facts.
Mockery is an even worse transgression to these people. That will simply embolden them even more than the facts will.
This is a good read: “Cognitive Style Tends To Predict Religious Conviction”
http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/09/21/cognitive-style-tends-to-predict-religious-conviction/29646.html”
I’ll quote Tom Eigelsbach from Google+ in a post he made re: the link above:
“A new series of studies provide insights on why some people have stronger religious beliefs than others.”
“Harvard University researchers believe the answer is tied to an individual’s preferred cognitive style — that is, the way people think and solve problems.”
“In a series of studies, investigators found that people with a more intuitive thinking style tend to have stronger beliefs in God than those with a more reflective style. Intuitive thinking means going with one’s first instinct and reaching decisions quickly based on automatic cognitive processes.”
“As a contrast, reflective thinking involves the questioning of first instinct and consideration of other possibilities, thus allowing for counterintuitive decisions.”
The people Kevin Drum is encouraging to stand their ground are the latter – those who will, instead of sticking to their convictions, take a step back and think (and probably go home and think). What Drum is saying is that despite what mockery may come, they’re right in protesting. He’s saying that despite the dismissive attitude from politicians, news media and conservative groups, there are far too many facts and truths on the side of the protesters to let that dismissiveness and mockery fool them.