Greg Mankiw has an essay on economic morality that essentially outlines a Just Deserts Theory of morality. Under this conception there is nothing wrong with people getting fabulously wealthy, its only bad when people cheat their way to the top. Greg also brings up an argument that I used to be attached to, that charity is a public good – no one wants to see poor people but we would all prefer that someone else do something about it – and as a public good is rightfully financed by government spending.
I’ve moved away from this view. Greg is right that it reflects common intuition. The problem is that this intuition does not survive introspection. It works so long as you don’t think too much about it. As you think more and more you are forced either into something like a consequentialist camp, that is to say that it matters who ends up with what. Or, you are forced into miniarchist camp. That is, that there should be almost no government at all. It’s hard to keep the idea that there should be some public goods if you are not explicitly conditioning your idea of a good society on what society actually exists.
Imagine for example the case of wounded vets. Almost all of us would feel bad if there was wasn’t descent medical care for wounded veterans. We feel a duty towards them. Not everyone does, however. Some people don’t care at all. How then can we justify forcing those people, via their tax money, to pay to support our value – helping wounded vets.
We lean, as Greg does it parts of his essay, on the notion that without public support there wouldn’t be enough private charity. Of the majority of us who do care about wounded vets, most of us might give. Yet, still other people – people who like us care about wounded vets – would not give because they hoped that someone else would give in their place. People would free ride on helping vets.
Wounded veterans suffering because of free riders seems horrible. However, this is only a moral problem if we are concerned about the actual amount of care that vets end up with. That is, in order to justify publically funding wounded veterans, we must care about the consequences of our public policy choices, not just about fairness of the process.
Once you opened the door to caring about the consequences of public policy choices that door is hard to shut. For a while I argued that this “slippery slope” meant that we had to embrace some from of anarcho-capitalism. Opening the door to any evaluation of consequences meant that we were in a full-blown consequentialist paradigm. That I thought was clearly bad.
Yet, over time that bullet proved too hard to bite. consequences did matter. Once I accepted that, the question then switched to “how do we evaluate when consequences are good or bad”
This leads me into something that is more or less Rawlsian. That is, that society should function so as to help out the least advantaged. That’s a hard switch, I admit, but the middle ground is not stable. The middle ground only works we you don’t spend too much time thinking about what you are endorsing.
I have some technical issues with Rawls. I don’t think maximizing the welfare of the least well off is appropriate even under the scenario that Rawls sets out. However, its hard to argue that concern for the least well off is not an important part of evaluating whether we are living in the society we want.
This leads me to a social view similar to Krugman where he states
The point is that you don’t, in fact, have to be that radical once you drop the rigidity of the conservative position. If you admit that life is unfair, and that there’s only so much you can do about that at the starting line, then you can try to ameliorate the consequences of that unfairness.
Importantly this unfairness need not, and in general is not, man-made. One of the problems I have with the approach taken by some on the left is the assumption that life is unfair because of racism, oppression, kleptocracy, etc. These things clearly exist but are not the primary source of unfairness. The primary source of unfairness is the fact that nature simply has no inherent justice. Contrary to common human intuition there is no cosmic balance or karma. Bad things happen to good people all the time and there is no point at which any natural force will rectify this.
In extreme cases, children are born with horrible genetic diseases. This is certainly not a punishment for offenses in a previous life. However, it’s not a lesson or a test from which better things will come either. They are just screwed. Life is just unfair.. Unless other human beings take action no entity is coming to help and things will not get better. Indeed, as I have said before the one thing that you can count in almost any situation is that ultimately things are bound to get much worse. This is no one’s fault and it’s not something we deserve. It’s just that we were born into the world and the world is thus.
The question before us, is that given that we were all born into this world – which is neither friendly nor hospitable nor ultimately even survivable – what can we do about it? What we can do is build a society that alleviates as much pain as we can and provides some people with the opportunity for genuine happiness. To do this its helpful to redistribute some wealth. We can’t make everything better through redistribution and too much redistribution will actually make things worse. However, we can make things a little less painful, we can provide a bit more joy and that’s a good thing. That’s a slightly better world, which is what we should be aiming for.
Importantly, we don’t redistribute because the people who have wealth have done anything wrong. Indeed, they have done good. We are glad to have them. We can, do and should honor them. However, we also note that taking a portion of what they have can ease the suffering of others and that’s also a good thing. Ultimately, it’s a balancing act. We can and should debate where the correct balance is.
What we should not do is pretend that there is some inherent justice in the market system. The market, when it is working well, reflects the actual costs and benefits of action in the real world, but the real world is deeply, deeply unjust.

31 comments
Comments feed for this article
Tuesday ~ January 11th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
John
You attack Mankiw, without even bothering to summarize the “pro” side of the argument you oppose – that limited intervention, limited redistribution, and the inevitable great rewards that can accrue to the few, maximizes the size of the pie available for redistribution. If you are arguing against that proposition, you’ve got an uphill fight (which most liberals ignore by identifying a few pebbles to ski down and declare victory, while ignoring the looming intellectual hill built by Adam Smith et al). If you’re arguing that the social benefits of fairness outweigh the social costs of the reduced pie – well, that would be an interesting starting point for discussion.
Tuesday ~ January 11th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Karl Smith
My point is that weighing the social costs of redistribution against the social benefits of fairness is the proper debate.
This is not a forgone conclusion and indeed, I argue, is not well supported by Mankiw’s reasoning.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 10:58 am
MosesZD
Sadly, the concentration of wealth leads to rent-seeking and, eventually, economic stagnation where you have a few people with so much wealth that they have no reason to effectively or efficiently utilize their resources. One only has to look at Thomas Jefferson’s observations of France and the inherent consequences of the concentration of wealth in a plutocracy.
And corporate examples abound here in America where one player, or perhaps a small handful, had so much market concentration that they stagnated and we suffered. The first cellular phone network, for example, was launched in Japan in 1979. Even though though Bell Labs had already outlined, in 1947, how to make it work. They just had no reason to make it work as they’d have been competing against their own monopoly.
So, between 1947 when Bell Labs figured it out and 1979 when Japan launched the first cellular network… Virtually nothing happened from Bell Labs (then AT&T) until they got word the Japanese were going whole hog into the concept.
Or touch-tone phones. Debuted in 1962 at the Seattle World’s Fair. I didn’t get a touch-tone phone until 20 years later. Why? Rent seeking. AT&T had no economic interest, until de-regulation and MCI/Sprint became competitors because the federal government (the Courts) forced open the markets.
And I could write a book about it. How your premise is, demonstrably through the actions of the participants in the market, false. I could pick on the Steel industry. I could pick on the auto industry. I could pick on IBM. I could pick the food industry both in segments and as a whole.
I could have used utility companies and the necessity of the Rural Electrification Act because rural customers are too expensive to serve vis revenue so they didn’t get electricity until decades after was passed. My grandparents, for example, didn’t get electricity until well after WWII. They had a PARTY LINE for God’s sake on the telephone until the late 1970′s.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 11:11 am
John
(making “shushing” sound as you whoosh down that pebble) seriously? you think you’ve proven that property rights and freedom are failed ideas because your grandparents had a party line in 1970? Monopoly is a legitimate market failure, for which government has an appropriate role to mitigate.
Incidentally, rent seeking is not caused by a concentration of wealth – rent seeking is caused by greed – capitalism motivates value capture, while society benefits from value creation – they are not the same, but what system are you arguing for that does a better job at value creation?
Friday ~ January 14th, 2011 at 9:04 am
Concerned Lurker
John:
The very definition of “rent seeking” already suggests that it has to do something with exclusive ownership of a key property that the owner can “rent out” for dear.
Monopolies are what enable rent seeking, and competition is what reduces/eliminates rent seeking behavior.
Your claim that rent seeking is enabled by greed misses the obvious: while greed is a required element in almost all forms of making money, having the opportunity to seek that rent depends on whether you are an over-sized, inefficient monopoly who can force that rent on customers/partners or not …
Rent seeking is the ultimate un-free endgame of “free markets” if they are left alone. Big fish eats small fish and after some time the biggest of fishes can seek rent …
Friday ~ January 14th, 2011 at 11:20 am
Ryan P
Dude, if you’re going to lecture people on the definition of rent-seeking, you might want to look it up first. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rent-seeking The word “rent” here has more or less nothing to do with the thing you pay your landlord (and the word “seeking” shouldn’t be ignored)
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
David Shor
“that limited intervention, limited redistribution, and the inevitable great rewards that can accrue to the few, maximizes the size of the pie available for redistribution”
The case for this is pretty weak. Without robust government intervention in the telecom sector, strong federal funding of basic scientific research, and money to educate the workforce, we would never have had the internet. That doesn’t even touch at the government’s artificial imposition of patents on the market place.
This is probably why there exists a relatively strong correlation between per-capita GDP and tax revenue as a percent of GDP, as even a cursory look at gap-minder would show. The case is even more clear when you look at median incomes. It’s not a coincidence that the countries with the highest taxes (Sweden, Denmark, etc), are also the countries with the highest growth and standards of living.
Thursday ~ January 13th, 2011 at 11:53 am
Ryan P
David, what data are you looking at? Sweden & Denmark’s per capita GDP is about $10K below the US’s (and it gets worse if you look at non-Scandinavian EU countries; Scandinavian countries are often weird outliers in a lot of metrics). Yes, there’s Norway, but it’s an outlier specifically because of oil revenue (presumably you’re not arguing that high taxes cause oil to exist)
Friday ~ January 14th, 2011 at 9:12 am
Concerned Lurker
Ryan, he said nothing about “per capita GDP”, he said “highest standards of living”.
Did you know that there is a difference?
Such as that in Sweden you do not have to be afraid that an extremely severe, long-lasting illness will bankrupt you and push you into poverty.
In the US it can happen to you, even if you currently have health care coverage: coverage can be dropped if you lose your job, coverage can be rescinded or coverage can get more and more expensive as your illness progresses – so that after a few years you may not be able to pay your fees and drop out of the system.
The lack of such types of horrors alone makes Sweden a nice place to live in.
Allowing fellow, hard-working americans to suffer from treatable but not insured illnesses is medeival, cruel and inhuman.
And I could go on and on.
Friday ~ January 14th, 2011 at 11:32 am
Ryan P
Concerned,
Interpreting “standard of living” as being largely measured by GDP per capita is pretty standard, particularly when (as above) it’s linked to “growth” (which also doesn’t seem to be true, as it happens). But you seem to be saying it should be interpreted as meaning either something ambiguous and unmeasurable (perhaps supported by exaggerated stats on medical bankruptcies in the US). Or are you defining standard of living as government spending on welfare benefits/redistribution? In that case, the sentence “the countries with the highest taxes … are also the countries with the highest … standards of living” would be redefined into a tautology …
Tuesday ~ January 11th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Sister Y
Rawls later abandoned his maximin idea, not least, I think, because its obvious consequence is that the ideal population size is 0 (since some people’s lives will always have negative value to them, they can be improved by not existing).
Tuesday ~ January 11th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Hal
Thanks for this post. Very good stuff.
Tuesday ~ January 11th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
John
I didn’t read it closely enough – my hackles get up anytime I read someone quoting from Krugman – we agree (but why bother marshaling that sellout to balanced thought in your argument? weakens it considerably…)
Saying you land the same place he does, because one cherry-picked quote says “once you admit life is unfair… you can try to ameliorate the consequences of that unfairness” (a banal platitude, far from a nuanced “social view” that I’d expect given the high quality of your writing and thought – no one, I doubt even Ayn Rand, would disagree) would be a little like blaming the Tea Party for a communist crazy assassinating people because one mentioned guns and the other used them. Oh, wait, Krugman already did that…
Sorry, invectitude aimed at a third party…
Tuesday ~ January 11th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
David B
Thank you for this post, putting aside religious motives and speaking in terms of fairness is a construct that I think most will agree is helpful.
Your choice to speak about an injured veteran is another helpful frame of reference as it clears away the debate over the effect of personal choices on outcomes. I would go further to to speak to the outcomes for the dependent children of injured veterans. Here you have a person that has been harmed by the noble actions of their parent. How, as a society, do we support that dependent child? What is the minimum that that child needs to compete with other children upon entering adulthood.
If we agree on that level of support, how do we address the needs of a dependent child of a drug addict? Here, gaining consensus becomes more difficult. The parent’s handicap was not incurred while fulfilling a societal obligation – quite the opposite – but the society would still be better off if the child were given a chance to become a fully contributing member of society.
It is my hope that, as a nation we could get past some of the entrenched political positions and deal with these issues in a rational fashion. It will require some concessions from all parties but if we can determine the basic level of support I would hope that we could then determine the best way to finance and deliver services to meet the need.
Tuesday ~ January 11th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
sardonic_sob
The fatal conceit of your fatal conceit is the conceit that you know better than the universe does what will maximize the happiness of the most people. When you extend this conceit to economics, you get socialism or one of its eleventy jillion variants. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don’t. Mostly they sort of work for variable periods of time and then fail catastrophically. When you extend it to government you get social democracy or some other form of utopianism. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don’t. Mostly they sort of work… you get the idea.
No one can know the ultimate consequences of any given act. This is irrefutable. (This is pretty much the basis of the entire field of Alternate History.) People cannot be perfected, society cannot be perfected, government of law is a happy fiction: anyone who claims that human progress is inevitable, save perhaps limited to pure technical progress, is either lying or deluded (or, to be charitable, thinking in terms of timespans which avail us not here in the now.) It basically boils down to who you trust to determine which actions will have the highest probability of increasing happiness and decreasing unhappiness. Applying our knowledge of history, this leads pretty much to the determination that the best form of government is dictatorship with the dictator responsible to some external power which basically 1) monitors their actions to determine whether they are at least rationally related to the ultimate goal, and 2) has the power to remove the dictator if their actions are not so related.
If I had the opportunity to vote in such an arrangement, as absurd as that sounds, I’d do it in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t offer myself as potential dictator – I’d do a lot better than many but I can think of many people off the top of my head who could do far better than I.
None of them are lawyers, economists, journalists, or academics, by the way. Would any of the ones on your list be a member of these groups? If not, ask yourself why these are the groups which essentially run the Western world.
Tuesday ~ January 11th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Ryan P
If we’re to take a vaguely Rawlsian approach to morality, why does that argue for a larger welfare state in this country as opposed to a very small welfare state and a great deal of immigration? (I’m assuming here that there’s a tension between high within-country redistribution and immigration for all of the standard reasons.)
Why do consequentialists believe that only consequentialists care about consequences? What’s supposed to be the distinguishing feature is that they ONLY care about consequences. I don’t see a lot of conflict between saying “consequences have more than zero weight” and saying “just and moral processes should have more than zero weight”. In fact, I find it hard to believe there’s anyone who doesn’t have something similar to that basic intuition; we all just try to force it down so that we can go one pure way or the other. I’m not sure why we do this or what we think we get out of it
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 9:01 am
Maxine Udall
There are at least two nuances to Rawls that I think are important. One is that over some range, cooperative production results in rising output and utility for both the advantaged and the less advantaged. In that range, both are made better by some redistributions. The other nuance is that (at least on my read) a better way of describing the maximization is to say that all inequalities that benefit the least well-off are acceptable. I think this is slightly different from “maximizing” their well-being. (I mean I could in theory maximize it simply by giving them everything, but then I would have a new group of least well-off). I wrote about some of this here: http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/09/the-possibility-of-happiness.html
Nice post!
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 10:25 am
Ryan P
Another nuance in Rawls seems to be “behind the veil of ignorance, you’re still quite certain about which country & which time you’ll be born in.” That asterisk hanging over “least well off” leads to the footnote “of the people in your country”
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 10:38 am
arbitrista
Hmm. I’m not sure this works. Justice is usually considered a question of relations among human beings, not the workings of the external universe. The fact that people are born with disabilities or that natural disasters happen is unjust, it simply is. It’s really asking too much of political and social institutions to account for such things. Elisabeth Anderson wrote about this very eloquently in her article “What is the Point of Equality” in Ethics (1999). Of course Nussbaum lays out the opposite case in “Frontiers of Justice.”
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 8:49 pm
David Shor
“Hmm. I’m not sure this works. Justice is usually considered a question of relations among human beings, not the workings of the external universe. The fact that people are born with disabilities or that natural disasters happen is unjust, it simply is. It’s really asking too much of political and social institutions to account for such things.”
That’s sociopathic. We can help these people quite a bit, and so we *should*. The exact details are a matter of debate.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
Corey Mutter
Well said.
As an atheist the ideas “suffering is not a test or gift, it just sucks”, “bad things happening have no relation to the moral worth of the sufferee” and “good people have no reward other than Earthly reward” come naturally to me. (And apparently you). But they’re not universally accepted, by a long shot.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Tom Hickey
Albert Einstein answers:
Why Socialism?
Worthwhile read.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
sardonic_sob
No progressive would ever take this seriously today, for at least two reasons:
1) Admission that at least some part of human nature is innate;
2) Admission that the simplest form of planned economy is universal slavery, and that the problem is to keep socialist entities from ending up there.
As the misery of the Soviet Union and Maoist China become more historically remote, and the misery of oligarchic Russia and fascist China become more pronounced, we will see more and more comments on how idyllic it was for the average worker, much the same way that Einstein recalls earlier days – more accurately categorized with the “nasty, brutish, and short” appellation – as likewise idyllic. He was wrong then, and they’ll be wrong now.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
trafalgar
No progressive would ever take this seriously today, for at least two reasons:
1) Admission that at least some part of human nature is innate…
This is a straw man if ever there was one. I’m pretty sure that Steven Pinker (who wrote several bestselling books making a point that a lot of human nature is innate) is pretty damn liberal.
And plenty of people in academia are lefties, including biologists and other scientists — and vast majority of them agree that there’s plenty innate in human nature.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 8:53 pm
David Shor
” Admission that the simplest form of planned economy is universal slavery, and that the problem is to keep socialist entities from ending up there”
What does that even mean? From what I’ve gathered, having actually lived in Russia for a good deal of time, was that the Soviet Union after World War II was basically like everyone working for the DMV. It was inefficient, inconvenient, and didn’t work very well.
But it wasn’t tyrannical. It was just sort of crappy.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Gepap
Re: Tom Hickey
That is a very good read.
I wish more economist would take the time to examine the work of different social sciences, particulalrly anthropology, since at the end the beast economics examines is Man, not Math.
Wednesday ~ January 12th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
sardonic_sob
That ain’t gonna happen, because econometricians want to be filed in the Real Hard Science With Math And Everything Department, not the Hell If We Know Why People Do Such Dumb Things Department. The former leads to power and glory for the multitudes, the latter to quiet obscurity for all but a talented few.
Thursday ~ January 13th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
dbk
Are emoluments the single criterion of social contribution, and therefore of determining “just deserts”? Mankiw’s own argument at the beginning of his address would suggest that education (or rather, the failure of education to keep pace with technological developments) is largely if not entirely responsible for the increasing inequality of income distribution since 1973. On this argument, shouldn’t the social contribution of education (and therefore, educators) be ranked as high?
(Note: Mankiw’s analysis of the cause of rising income inequality takes this failure of education to keep up with technology as sole cause. But isn’t it also possible to imagine that technology’s advance has brought about a decrease in supply of jobs for technology workers, or that such jobs as do exist have been outsourced to cheaper labor markets?)
It would be interesting to ask a representative sampling of readers to rank, in accordance with their own “moral intuition,” the “social contribution” (and therefore, the “just deserts”) of 10-15 jobs and then match those rankings against compensation scales.
My own “moral intuition” tells me that there are few people who would rank the “social contribution” (and by extension, according to Mankiw’s own argument, the “just deserts”) of hedge fund managers as greater than that of physicians, teachers, policemen, or firemen …
Monday ~ January 17th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Michael Walzer’s Spheres of Justice and Economic Inequality « Rortybomb
[...] lot of people have been talking about economic inequality and Rawls (Krugman, Yglesias, Karl Smith). Krugman: “My vision of economic morality is more or less Rawlsian: we should try to create [...]
Monday ~ January 17th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
The Finance Cooler | Blog | Michael Walzer’s Spheres of Justice and Economic Inequality
[...] lot of people have been talking about economic inequality and Rawls (Krugman, Yglesias, Karl Smith). Krugman: “My vision of economic morality is more or less Rawlsian: we should try to create [...]
Tuesday ~ January 18th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Craig
Many people with both a heart and a brain end up in a vaguely Rawlsian place. The tone of many of these comments, Karl, is the profoundest endorsement of the wisdom and thoughtfulness of the position you articulate.