Karl does not like karma. Now obviously, being the anti-theist that I am, I don’t believe that there is a benevolent god dishing out karmic punishments and rewards…nor do I think there is a necessary causal link between actions in your social life, and haphazard physical consequences (i.e. helping an old lady across the street, and then finding five bucks…or yelling at your sister, and then stubbing your toe on a chair).
Karl is quite right that human lives are basically a fight against entropy, in which entropy always eventually wins. We strive to use energy inputs to create fit order (which of course, is called “wealth” in economics), in order to escape griding poverty. And in order to maintain such a regime, we need a constant influx of energy inputs and a constant outflow of waste. If these conditions aren’t maintained, everything falls back into a disorder and disarray…most of the population on earth dies, and all of our crowning achievements whither away.
However, this fact need not lay waste to the entire concept of karma. Due to the nature of our societal setup, there is ample opportunity for repeated interaction. This is what I view as the key to the concept of karma. In a world where there is no repeated interactions with people, then there is no need for the concept, as your past circumstances are unknown upon future interactions. Because our society offers ample opportunity for us to repeatedly interact with multiple groups and individuals. Thus, our past actions have a causal link to future interactions.
For example, imagine Robinson Crusoe and Friday are stranded on an island in which they are forced to interact daily. The probability of friendly our hostile interaction is directly related to the results of past interactions. Thus, if Crusoe stabs Friday, he increases the probability that Friday will respond with either violence, or avoidance. One can imagine extrapolating this simple model into a society with multiple complex interactions, and see how someone who always acts in a way that is hostile toward people would end up living in a world where he/she was either under constant threat of retaliation, or seclusion. This may seem like just desserts doled out by a just god…but it is really just the sum of all of the interactions people have.
Ostensibly, we are all perceived to be “mean” to some people, and “nice” to others…most people work to gather and groom a social network, and human interaction is of course very complex, so the probability distributions are never nice and tidy…and are generally always in flux. However, it is a useful way to think somewhat scientifically about a popular moral concept.
P.S. One note about the Tea Party’s notion of economic “fairness”. It is generally a conservative attitude that through grit, determination, and hard work; a person will be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps into a higher income and better life. However, as liberals like to point out (and often oversell), mobility is oftentimes lower than what intuition tells people. Tom Hertz of American University produced a study (PDF) of income mobility in America which is actually pretty good. What it shows is that mobility within the middle class is often exactly what intuition would tell you…but mobility out of deep poverty, and into the highest echelons of wealth are much, much less than popularly perceived.
That mostly happens to be a lottery, however in a study named “The Apple Doesn’t Fall Far from the Tree” (gated), the team of researchers found that there is a high correlation in pro- and anti-social behavior between parents and their children. It is my opinion that success is often attributable to the (often inadvertent) learning and second-nature understanding of social norms of behavior. These norms are not the same for each societal class…and to have any hope of breaking into a different class, these norms have to be mastered. I’m sure you’ve heard of the contempt of “old money” to the “newly-minted wealthy”. This gives people who have grown up imitating these values a home-field advantage. It is also why the “middle class” is a relatively mobile section of the income distribution — middle class is a very large range of incomes, for which similar values hold.
So in short, I tend to agree with Matt Miller (with whom I rarely agree) that the type of society we should try to build should give maximum equality of upside opportunity combined with a downside safety net. The idea being that (as a society) it is in our interests to have a lot of wealthy people…so it would benefit everyone to help the poor get rich, rather than economically punish the rich. The structure of private/public interaction in this setup is something that I’m sure I’ll differ from many on the left.
P.P.S. I’ve always struggled with the question of “fairness” of economic outcomes. Are there any “fair” economic outcomes? What would constitute such? Is the the completely wrong question to be asking? I kind of think so, but I’d be interested in hearing what you readers have to say on the subject.

12 comments
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Tuesday ~ October 19th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
RickRussellTX
What do you mean by “lottery” in this context?
Tuesday ~ October 19th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Niklas Blanchard
What income distribution you are born into. Sorry, probably should have been more clear.
Wednesday ~ October 20th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
RickRussellTX
Ah, OK. I thought you were referring to economic mobility.
Tuesday ~ October 19th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
jazzbumpa
Economic forces are as amoral as gravity. To that extent, outcomes are not influenced by fairness.
However, as Karl pointed out – we strive against natural forces. We can build towers and aircraft and lunar modules that defy gravity. Technology gives us ways of fighting against entropy.
Similarly we can influence economic outcomes – or at least opportunities. This is what progressives strive for. The result is a better world for everyone – Redistribute from the rich, for whom the marginal utility of the next dollar is 0, to that person in grinding poverty where the utility is enormous.
But performing this act will earn you no karma at all. Beck will call you a fascist communist, and his millions of devoted listeners will cock their 22′s when they have you in their sights.
JzB
Tuesday ~ October 19th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Rebecca Burlingame
Niklas, Thanks so much for a carefully thought through discussion. I had already been dismayed by the discussion of karma making the rounds when Karl picked it up as part of another ongoing campaign…there are times when he can get my goat and when that happens Karl is like a road with a pothole that I should not even go down, some days are easier than others!
I’ll try to answer your question from some notes I’ve been working on this last hour: the idea of “fairness” in economic outcomes can really get people bogged down. So, rather than fairness, an economy that allows survival when people are willing to try on a continual basis. For basic needs, people can utilize economic tools (structured reciprocal freedoms) to create value in use economies. People can use value in exchange economies to the degree that they are able to find work in money-based economies. Plus, individuals taking back the responsibility of today’s entitlements would encourage industry to return. However, not all of the wealth that people aspire to has to come from value in exchange economies. What some call “experience” economies can also happen in value of use economies, which because they rely upon knowledge and environment, tend to create value in ways that are easiest to measure by the time they actually take place within. Please forgive me not explaining the most basic structure, this work is not yet published.
Tuesday ~ October 19th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Karl Smith
Rebecca:
What about me gets your goat?
Tuesday ~ October 19th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Rebecca Burlingame
Karl,
In all fairness (that word again) some of this is my fault for not knowing the proper “econspeak”, so I have felt left out of the dialogue at times. I try to learn as much as I can from many sources and I get upset when everyone starts blasting away at one another, (as has been the recent case with Arnold Kling) instead of looking to find common solutions with one another.
Wednesday ~ October 20th, 2010 at 3:12 am
interfluidity » The Karmic Truth
[...] Blanchard, in the delightfully autistic manner of an economist, rephrases Karma in terms of game theory and inferred probability distributions following repeated interactions. And [...]
Wednesday ~ October 20th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Sister Y
I’ve always struggled with the question of “fairness” of economic outcomes. Are there any “fair” economic outcomes? What would constitute such? Is the the completely wrong question to be asking?
Have you read Rawls?
I think it’s the completely right question to be asking. Not nearly enough economic thinking is devoted to it, because it’s messy and murky and not suitable for mathematical models.
Wednesday ~ October 20th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Lord
What impresses me about the Tea Party’s idea of fairness is how narrow it is, banks shouldn’t be bailed out but letting them get into that condition is fine, taxes shouldn’t be raised but don’t cut my spending, a very short sighted karma it is. Perhaps they should be looking at themselves in the mirror.
Saturday ~ October 8th, 2011 at 11:33 am
Objectivist Observerid
http://theobjectivistobserver.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/karma-and-probability/ Hey what are your thoughts on this?
Wednesday ~ March 27th, 2013 at 2:06 am
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