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	<title>Comments on: Culture and State</title>
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		<title>By: When I hear the word &#8220;culture&#8221;, I reach for my non-aggression axiom &#171; Entitled to an Opinion</title>
		<link>http://modeledbehavior.com/2009/10/26/culture-and-state/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[When I hear the word &#8220;culture&#8221;, I reach for my non-aggression axiom &#171; Entitled to an Opinion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 06:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] DMV, shaking your fist to the last. The sites I have rambled at are Wilkinson&#8217;s, IOZ and Modeled Behavior. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Mind comments on boost to war veterans mental [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] DMV, shaking your fist to the last. The sites I have rambled at are Wilkinson&#8217;s, IOZ and Modeled Behavior. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Mind comments on boost to war veterans mental [...]</p>
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		<title>By: teageegeepea</title>
		<link>http://modeledbehavior.com/2009/10/26/culture-and-state/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[teageegeepea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://modeledbehavior.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/culture-and-state/#comment-668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The dishonesty doesn&#039;t have to be violation of a contract. Some people are just generally untrustworthy liars. I oppose laws that criminalize mere lying, whether that be in the form of Holocaust denial or the Yes Men setting up a site pretending to be that of the Chamber of Commerce. As a libertarian I want people to have the freedom to disseminate information pointing out that someone is dishonest so that others will not be fooled. But if people don&#039;t mind lying all that much, I don&#039;t mind little of that happening and many people being fooled.

I treat all preferences as given and as legitimate as any other. So the preference to not engage in SM is like the preference not to be in a relationship with an SM enthusiast (if we can mold one preference, why not the other?) is like the preference not to hire an SM enthusiast. It&#039;s not my place to judge any of them. I think the SM example is particularly funny in that someone is agreeing to be subjected to pain, and often domination. Some varieties of &quot;thick&quot; libertarians or cultural liberals would have to oppose the practice and encourage submissives to be more assertive and dominants to get their kicks in a more acceptable manner!

I mentioned that I am completely on the pluralist end of Jacob Levy&#039;s spectrum, but my goal isn&#039;t simply &quot;a pluralist [or diverse] society&quot;. I used the example of small, subsidized languages at Wilkinson&#039;s. I want freedom for Welsh enthusiasts to be able to speak Welsh together and do whatever it is Welsh enthusiasts do, but I am not inclined to encourage English speakers to learn Welsh so that Welsh enthusiasts have a less constraining culture. In an economic sense I think it is inefficient for good workers not to be hired because their bosses don&#039;t approve of non-work-related matters and so I&#039;m glad if other businesses outcompete them in grabbing such talent, but that&#039;s just letting the market take its course. I don&#039;t try to second-guess it and say what the outcome ought to be. I personally like more economic efficiency, but I have no problem with people pursuing other ends voluntarily, as in a kibbutz. Efficiency lowers costs and increases many persons &quot;positive liberty&quot;, but libertarianism isn&#039;t about promoting efficiency, we just happen to think that would be a result. Starting a new innovative business may increase efficiency, but it&#039;s a distinct matter from libertarianism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dishonesty doesn&#8217;t have to be violation of a contract. Some people are just generally untrustworthy liars. I oppose laws that criminalize mere lying, whether that be in the form of Holocaust denial or the Yes Men setting up a site pretending to be that of the Chamber of Commerce. As a libertarian I want people to have the freedom to disseminate information pointing out that someone is dishonest so that others will not be fooled. But if people don&#8217;t mind lying all that much, I don&#8217;t mind little of that happening and many people being fooled.</p>
<p>I treat all preferences as given and as legitimate as any other. So the preference to not engage in SM is like the preference not to be in a relationship with an SM enthusiast (if we can mold one preference, why not the other?) is like the preference not to hire an SM enthusiast. It&#8217;s not my place to judge any of them. I think the SM example is particularly funny in that someone is agreeing to be subjected to pain, and often domination. Some varieties of &#8220;thick&#8221; libertarians or cultural liberals would have to oppose the practice and encourage submissives to be more assertive and dominants to get their kicks in a more acceptable manner!</p>
<p>I mentioned that I am completely on the pluralist end of Jacob Levy&#8217;s spectrum, but my goal isn&#8217;t simply &#8220;a pluralist [or diverse] society&#8221;. I used the example of small, subsidized languages at Wilkinson&#8217;s. I want freedom for Welsh enthusiasts to be able to speak Welsh together and do whatever it is Welsh enthusiasts do, but I am not inclined to encourage English speakers to learn Welsh so that Welsh enthusiasts have a less constraining culture. In an economic sense I think it is inefficient for good workers not to be hired because their bosses don&#8217;t approve of non-work-related matters and so I&#8217;m glad if other businesses outcompete them in grabbing such talent, but that&#8217;s just letting the market take its course. I don&#8217;t try to second-guess it and say what the outcome ought to be. I personally like more economic efficiency, but I have no problem with people pursuing other ends voluntarily, as in a kibbutz. Efficiency lowers costs and increases many persons &#8220;positive liberty&#8221;, but libertarianism isn&#8217;t about promoting efficiency, we just happen to think that would be a result. Starting a new innovative business may increase efficiency, but it&#8217;s a distinct matter from libertarianism.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Smith</title>
		<link>http://modeledbehavior.com/2009/10/26/culture-and-state/#comment-666</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karl Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Would publicizing such a person’s dishonesty, condemning and shunning them be a sort of weaponized culture that libertarians should be worried about?&lt;/i&gt;

Interesting question. I am not opposed to the government enforcing contracts, so there should be no reason to oppose culture enforcing contracts. Though, I will admit that it seems off putting which tells me that my intuition on this issue is not well honed.

On Will&#039;s blog you asked,  if firing someone for engaging in S&amp;M is an infringement then is refusing to be in a relationship with for the same reason infringement. 

The difference is of course that presumably S&amp;M play would become a part of the relationship and thus effect its character. So, lets alter it and say former S&amp;M practitioner.

In both cases my sense is that libertarians should engage this on a social level and promote acceptance of S&amp;M practitioner. We shouldn&#039;t use the state to force hiring or relationship, but we should use persuasion to encourage people to be open. 

If we really want a pluralist society then this seems to be important.

Thought?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Would publicizing such a person’s dishonesty, condemning and shunning them be a sort of weaponized culture that libertarians should be worried about?</i></p>
<p>Interesting question. I am not opposed to the government enforcing contracts, so there should be no reason to oppose culture enforcing contracts. Though, I will admit that it seems off putting which tells me that my intuition on this issue is not well honed.</p>
<p>On Will&#8217;s blog you asked,  if firing someone for engaging in S&amp;M is an infringement then is refusing to be in a relationship with for the same reason infringement. </p>
<p>The difference is of course that presumably S&amp;M play would become a part of the relationship and thus effect its character. So, lets alter it and say former S&amp;M practitioner.</p>
<p>In both cases my sense is that libertarians should engage this on a social level and promote acceptance of S&amp;M practitioner. We shouldn&#8217;t use the state to force hiring or relationship, but we should use persuasion to encourage people to be open. </p>
<p>If we really want a pluralist society then this seems to be important.</p>
<p>Thought?</p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://modeledbehavior.com/2009/10/26/culture-and-state/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TGGP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://modeledbehavior.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/culture-and-state/#comment-665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;it is clear enough when culture is oppressing the individual.&lt;/i&gt;
Clarity is rarely so clear.

&lt;i&gt;Whenever there are threats of ostracism and stigmatization for living a certain lifestyle or making a given set of personal choices, culture is being used as a weapon.&lt;/i&gt;
Many libertarians of the anarcho-capitalist variety laud the old &quot;Law Merchant&quot;, which could not physically enforce its edicts but relied on blacklisting by other professionals. I used the example of a dishonest person in Wilkinson&#039;s comment section. Would publicizing such a person&#039;s dishonesty, condemning and shunning them be a sort of weaponized culture that libertarians should be worried about? Or should we applaud it, as Wilkinson did for political correctness?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>it is clear enough when culture is oppressing the individual.</i><br />
Clarity is rarely so clear.</p>
<p><i>Whenever there are threats of ostracism and stigmatization for living a certain lifestyle or making a given set of personal choices, culture is being used as a weapon.</i><br />
Many libertarians of the anarcho-capitalist variety laud the old &#8220;Law Merchant&#8221;, which could not physically enforce its edicts but relied on blacklisting by other professionals. I used the example of a dishonest person in Wilkinson&#8217;s comment section. Would publicizing such a person&#8217;s dishonesty, condemning and shunning them be a sort of weaponized culture that libertarians should be worried about? Or should we applaud it, as Wilkinson did for political correctness?</p>
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